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Transcript: Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway on “Face the Nation,” Nov. 20, 2022

The following is a transcript of an interview with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway, co-hosts of the podcast “Pivot,” that aired on Sunday, Nov. 20, 2022.


MARGARET BRENNAN: This weekend there’s uncertainty about Twitter’s future below its new proprietor Elon Musk. For extra we’re joined by tech journalist Kara Swisher, host of “On with Kara Swisher” and from London, Scott Galloway, who’s her co-host on the podcast “Pivot” and additionally a professor at NYU. It’s good to have you ever each right here, massive weekend. Last evening, Elon Musk, Kara, put Donald Trump, the former president, again on Twitter. He had been suspended after January 6–

KARA SWISHER: Permanently. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: And he went and he based his personal social media company, Truth Social, and in response to filings, he has a six hour unique, he can solely publish there, not on Twitter. 

KARA SWISHER: Yeah. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: So what’s lifting the ban on his use of Twitter really do?

KARA SWISHER: Nothing. I imply, he is been posting- individuals have been posting his- his Truths, I believe that is what they’re referred to as, on Twitter already and it will get out anyway. So he has, , he is acquired these contractual obligations to this company that isn’t doing nice. And I believe he cannot resist, and he’ll in all probability go full Twitter in some unspecified time in the future. But I do not suppose it makes any distinction. Plus, he is the former president, so it would not fairly hit fairly as exhausting. So I believe the juice is slightly bit out of his energy on that platform, we’ll see.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he is additionally, Scott, a presidential candidate as we discovered only a few days in the past. He was kicked off of Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, after January 6. Do you suppose this, this opens the floodgates? Or is that this only a gimmick by Elon Musk for PR?

SCOTT GALLOWAY: I believe it is largely the latter. I believe if- if Elon is out of the information for greater than 48 hours, he’ll determine to kick him off once more. He mentioned that the individuals had spoken in Latin. I discovered that this poll- Elon Musk polls on Twitter are extra for help than illumination. He ran the same ballot to see whether or not or not he ought to promote Tesla stock, and it ended up he’d already filed to promote these shares. So I believe these polls are largely a gimmick. And I’d argue the individuals have not spoken the GRU has spoken these, Twitter–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Russian intelligence, you imply? 

SCOTT GALLOWAY: Hundred p.c. Twitter has turn out to be a playground for unhealthy actors and pretend bots. This ballot is meaningless. This choice is meaningless.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you had predicted earlier that Twitter may collapse. Just- we have seen 1000’s of workers both get fired or stroll off the job. Do you – do you stand by that?

SCOTT GALLOWAY: Well, Twitter will survive and even when it would not, let’s be mindful, it is not a nationwide treasure. We would all be simply positive if Twitter went away. But I believe if you see this kind of wholesale firing and the method by which he is gone about firing, that creates any such resentment, I simply see the web site taking place. I believe we must always do a head of lettuce check versus when the web site goes down. What we’re not speaking about is the knock on results at Tesla. You know, if you purchase a Tesla, you are shopping for a pair of Air Jordans, you are associating immediately with a person, and no particular person, possibly with exception of Trump, or Putin, has eroded extra of their goodwill and model fairness than Elon Musk. And then you definately go to Space X, the place everybody who works for the authorities, and this can be a authorities contractor, has a duty to a termination type they need to fill out. And I believe he is antagonized sufficient officers that we will begin seeing extra scrutiny on Space X contracts.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I imply, there was already discuss for nationwide safety functions to overview that due to international possession. Kara, for- for customers at residence, what does this really imply? Like what can we do to guard ourselves? Is there something to guard ourselves in opposition to this?

KARA SWISHER: Yeah, it is collapsing. Twitter used to go down all the time with a “fail whale.” It was quite common, and there- you are gonna see extra of that, yeah. I’m already seeing points on the platform due to fewer individuals. And that is like, you’ll be able to’t obtain your archive very simply. If you- should you log off and you’ve got two-factor authentication, good luck getting on and stuff like that you just’re gonna see round the edges. There could be- the drawback is that if he begins pushing up massive modifications, you are gonna see issues. If he begins doing a number of issues, you are gonna see issues. If one coder makes a mistake, you would see issues and that is what it’s. What everybody’s gonna do, Margaret, I do know, it is exhausting for us media individuals and politicians to know, but it surely’s not very massive anyplace else. It’s a really small service in comparison with the Facebooks, the Instagrams, and the TikToks of the world. And so I believe it is not gonna matter to most individuals. It’s gonna matter to the chattering class who enjoys dunking on one another all through the day, primarily.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I imply, it has turn out to be in some methods a information wire, nearly, from authorities bulletins, issues like that. Scott, I additionally need to ask you about this gorgeous fall, we noticed this week of- of the founding father of FTX, this cryptocurrency change. 30 year outdated billionaire Sam Bankman-Fried, prime Democratic donor, he is identified on this city. Justice Department, SEC, CFTC are all now investigating. What precisely occurred right here?

SCOTT GALLOWAY: Well, on a really broad degree, we do not as a species, we will not assist however to worship individuals. And in the US, we have determined to worship tech billionaires. And they do not fall into the identical scrutiny together with a 30-year-old MIT graduate, who we’re all hoping is sort of the subsequent Jesus and would not want a board of administrators or would not want any kind of regulatory scrutiny. And consequently in about 24 hours, you’ve got the immolation of $34 billion in capital and that’s actually take a medium sized metropolis, and everybody in that metropolis on Tuesday has $10,000. And the subsequent day they’ve zero. So it will usher in warranted scrutiny, it is extra spectacle than vital as a result of the complete crypto market now could be $800 billion. And Amazon has shed over a trillion {dollars}. And when the complete FTX debacle was unwinding, the markets had been really up. So it makes for attention-grabbing information. And not like the nice monetary recession, the place we noticed an enormous harm to the financial system, and nobody go to jail, I believe that is gonna be the reverse. I do not suppose it is gonna have a really massive impression on the financial system, however I believe you are gonna see some perp walks right here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But some arrests, I imply, the Treasury Secretary was requested by our Nancy Cordes about this, and she mentioned, “the absence of appropriate supervision and regulation of digital assets contributed to the collapse.” I imply, that is saying, primarily, we had been asleep at the wheel, in addition to authorities.

KARA SWISHER: This is early, and they have not accomplished a lot regulation on the common web. And that is 20 years therefore, primarily. And in order that they had been simply beginning to give you concepts between the SEC and the CFTC of methods to regulate all these things. And Bankman-Fried was a part of it, he was consulted fairly a bit. And lots of people had been, and mentioned he was calling for regulation, should you recall, which is considerably ironic, however there hadn’t they hadn’t found out methods to take care of this very new and kind of explosive new monetary instrument. And I believe that is extra the drawback is Washington strikes at a glacial tempo round these items. They had been transferring quicker than they’ve in different areas, however they definitely hadn’t figured it out. But in the end, that is going to be, , some kind of fraud case or one thing like that. I agree with Scott, somebody’s going to jail.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Scott, there are additionally layoffs, not simply at Twitter, however we noticed some at Facebook, we noticed job cuts at Amazon. You’ve referred to as this a “Patagonia vest” recession. What does that imply precisely?

SCOTT GALLOWAY: Well, most recessions are both labeled white or blue collar, that means that they usually impression one cohort greater than the different, both executives, white collar, or blue collar, kind of the working class. This is the Patagonia huge recession. And that’s, we will see extra individuals laid off and the progress a part of our financial system that has kind of been the reward that retains on giving for 13 years. But once more, Margaret, I believe that is extra noise than information as a result of 99.99% of the individuals on the planet would pray to be lately laid off individual from Meta or Google. If you’ve got been lately laid off from one among these companies, it signifies that you in all probability went to an elite faculty, you reside in a metropolis the place the progress prospects or the financial system is rising like loopy. And you’re your greatest drawback is just not going to be what to do, however what to not do. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: What in case you are an H1B visa recipient, and you get despatched again residence? 

SCOTT GALLOWAY:  That’s a good level.

KARA SWISHER: You noticed that image from Twitter, I imply, Elon put some, one other performative picture up of them – doing coding. I’m undecided what they had been doing. But there have been individuals there that had been clearly from different international locations. And so they’re caught there. They are sort of they cannot depart and I believe that is one among the points you are gonna have for all these individuals is the place did they go? Loads of corporations are taken care of, and I believe Facebook was one among them, or Meta was doing that in order that they’ll attempt to determine it out. But Scott’s 100% proper. These are individuals who have a number of choices, and there can be extra jobs for them, comparatively. And I’ll notice that Scott does himself have a Patagonia vest and is doing simply positive. I’ve seen it.

(CROSS TALK) 

SCOTT GALLOWAY: Never.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All proper, subsequent time. You acquired to put on it, Scott. Thank you. Good to see you. Scott’s becoming a member of us there from London and Kara,  good to have you ever right here in studio. 

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